Are bpal blends all-natural?

[starfish327]

that's actually part of what's been bugging me about this all day. even if they were pre-blended, they aren't just being dumped in a bottle. it's like being upset with someone for using pre-packaged dyes or pre-prepped blanks for indie dyed yarns...it's what you do with it that matters*.

 

*i am and always will be a fiber nut if the fact that i keep gravitating towards those comparisions are any suggesting.

 

Exactly! But now we know without a doubt that the lab makes all its own accords, so we can bask even further in their awesome 1337 skillz.

 

(And I guess you haven't run into too many crazy quilt artists! Some of those people act like you're a total hack if you don't harvest the berries to craft your own dye and do everything short of weave your own fabric. )

 

oh no i have. today's part of this thread actually is tame compared to some i've seen go on on other sites about SOCK YARN of all things....

[Coldfire]

Dear Beth,

 

 

This. Your Response is why you are in a small pantheon of strong women role-models I admire. You may not have intentionally set out to be a role model, but after reading your response, it cements it for me. You are successful without comprimising your high standards, ethically, morally or for quality. So thank you. You and Puddin and Brian and the Labbies....keep on keepin on. I hope that you in some manner or form continue to inspire women young and old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

eta: because I can haz spelling?

Edited January 27, 2010 by Coldfire

[Moryssa]

Can one of the mods pull out Beth's response here and sticky it to the top of the whole freaking message board?

 

, Beth.

 

I've never met you, and probably won't ever have the chance unless you decide to visit Chicago (and you're welcome to do so... I'll make dinner! ) but I still (heart) you to pieces.

 

--M

 

[doublehelix]

Can one of the mods pull out Beth's response here and sticky it to the top of the whole freaking message board?

 

, Beth.

 

I've never met you, and probably won't ever have the chance unless you decide to visit Chicago (and you're welcome to do so... I'll make dinner! ) but I still (heart) you to pieces.

 

--M

 

I agree. Beth and company are amazing... this gives me even more reason to put through my very first offical lab order. (I only have swaps on their way to me )

[saralaughs]

I'm the one that brought charity into it. I apologize for that. But I did it to make a point. A point about The Lab's goodwill and integrity and why I choose to support it instead of some commerical perfumer with fancy-pants on (besides the awesomesauce that is the actual product I buy).

 

While jayne could go look on her favorite perfumers website to see which charitable causes they have donated to, I don't have to do that and didn't. Puddin let us know exactly how much was raised for Haiti last month. I didn't need to search out the info, it was shared with us, down to the last penny. How much more of a sense of community can you get?

[copagirl]

I'm so glad that Beth came on to respond here. Her post made me tear up with pride. I would rather spend my money with bpal and small companies that care about their customers than anywhere else. I love bpal perfume and this forum and everyone on here. The coolest people on the planet!

I hope Jayne has read this and at least gotten a sense of what we're all about. It's family, like a small family business. I'll never buy perfume from a huge company again.

[XOMom]

Damn, Beth. I feel all melty inside!

[seadragon]

Beth That was an awesome post!

[crebbsgirl]

/respectfully snipped

 

... (there's a thread somewhere that talks about where she [Beth] studied, I'm sure someone less lazy than I will find it for you),....

 

Ok, I've looked and I can't find this thread anywhere? Does anyone know where to find it? Now I'm dying of curiosity!!

Edited January 27, 2010 by crebbsgirl

[Mrs.Black]

/respectfully snipped

 

... (there's a thread somewhere that talks about where she [Beth] studied, I'm sure someone less lazy than I will find it for you),....

 

Ok, I've looked and I can't find this thread anywhere? Does anyone know where to find it? Now I'm dying of curiosity!!

 

This was posted by someone in another perfume forum:

 

" Her name is Beth, and here's her bio:

 

A bit about the perfumer, Beth:

 

Beth has been interested in perfumery and aromatherapy since she was about 12 years old, and western alchemy, Hermetic science and paganism since she was about 14. When she was 12, she met George Hiram Derby, a Master Perfumer, Master Freemason and world-renowned occultist. He learned his trade from several sources in the 40’s, including Mme. Marie Guischard of New Orleans, LA, who was a perfumer and a voodooeinne – a brilliant and very, very interesting woman.

 

On Mr. Derby’s advice, Beth undertook a series of rigorous courses in aromatherapy. A year later, she began a six year apprenticeship with Mr. Derby, after which she had the pleasure of a year’s work with Mme. Guischard herself, learning everything she could about Afro-Carribean rootwork on top of perfumery, natural magick, and herbalism.

 

When Mme. Guischard passed away, Beth resumed her training with Mr. Derby and two wonderful people that Mr. Derby introduced her to – Maxwell Chan, a specialist in Eastern herbal medicine, and Jose Ramon Diaz, a specialist in initiatic tinctures, spagyric formulas, the use of colloidal metals and monatomic elements, and Ayurvedic herbalism. Through all this she continued extensive study on her own.

 

In 1991, she opened up Animi, a perfumery and occult shop. She eventually reorganized the shop and turned it into a by-appointment-only aromatherapy and perfume consultation service. Basically, her clients would make an appointment, she’d serve coffee, tea, and cookies, and they’d chat, work on scents together, and she would provide a full-service consultation.

 

And in 2000, Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab was born, from whence comes the perfume oil you hold in your hand."

 

 

 

[jayne]

Thanks for clearingy that up, Beth. It's good to know I'm supporting someone like you.

 

I'm sorry if my post came off as accusatory and not investigatory, but that was not my intention.

 

I do think that it would be helpful to have these things noted on the website with the very direct wording you just used in your post. In Luca Turin's blog, a lot of people pointed to the lab's ambiguous wording as an indication that something was awry. And this thread (going back to 2004!) seemed to have a lot of back and forth, with statements being made and then retracted, and no clear, conclusive answer from the lab staff. Even longtimers seemed to be very confused about the source of the oil.

 

 

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

again, thanks for the response. it was illuminating.

Edited January 28, 2010 by jayne

[Venneh]

The bulk of our reasons for not using prefab oils stem from their incompatibility with our vision for the company. [snip]

 

There are many reasons that we do not use prefab oils to make our scents, and the least ethics-based one is that, quite bluntly, our customer base is not stupid. If we ever began using prefab candle fragrance oils in our products, our customers, who are intelligent, enthusiastic consumers, many of whom use prefab oils themselves for b&b crafts, would figure it out. It’s that simple. [snip]

 

We purchase component oils from many, many small companies because we believe in small business, and we want to help people like us. We used to extract oils in-house YEARS ago, but it became impossible to continue in that vein and still fill orders in a timely manner and keep costs down. We could outsource to a fragrance chemist, our costs would be significantly reduced, and it would alleviate all of our problems with batch consistency and component issues. That, too, doesn’t fit into my vision for Black Phoenix. I like working with my hands, being immersed in the concepts and the scents. If we outsourced to a fragrance chemist, my life would be much easier, but I would derive very little personal joy from my work. I don’t consult fragrance wheels, or worry too much about harmonious or traditional top, middle, or base notes.

 

[more respectful snipping]

 

Yes, they're all-natural. No pre-fab. Nothing synthetic. Copy/pasted relevant information from Beth's response to you. Don't see how it's not clear.

[Moryssa]

Venneh:

 

prefab does not equal synthetic. (at least I don't think it does.)

 

I don't know... the whole "what's the definition of natural and what's the definition of synthetic" question confuses me anyway, but I do think that jayne's question is a different one than the one you're answering.

 

--M

Edited January 28, 2010 by Moryssa

[Tramp]

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

if there are synthetics used what does it matter? Truly. Because I really want to know. How in the world would using a synthetic matter if that was the best possible scent for the results she wanted?

[copyshopclerk]

Hey jayne, just as a thought - if you're concerned about a particular component for allergy reasons, drop a line to BPAL's customer service at answers@blackphoenixalchemylab.com - they'll be able to let you know if something you're allergic to is in a blend that you're considering purchasing.

[vampkat]

Thanks for clearly that up, Beth. It's good to know I'm supporting someone like you.

 

I'm sorry if my post came off as accusatory and not investigatory, but that was not my intention.

 

I do think that it would be helpful to have these things noted on the website with the very direct wording you just used in your post. In Luca Turin's blog, a lot of people pointed to the lab's ambiguous wording as an indication that something was awry. And this thread (going back to 2004!) seemed to have a lot of back and forth, with statements being made and then retracted, and no clear, conclusive answer from the lab staff. Even longtimers seemed to be very confused about the source of the oil.

 

 

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

again, thanks for the response. it was illuminating.

 

 

Yeah.

[clowder]

jayne, I am a long time lurker on this forum though a passionate BPAL fan. At first I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were posting from a point of ignorance and really just wanted to know more about the company. Now I think you are just trying to poke the dragon.

 

My suggestion to you is to sit back and wait for your oils to arrive and then really explore the art you receive. Dont kill your own adventure before it even begins.

[Delirium1009]

Thanks for clearly that up, Beth. It's good to know I'm supporting someone like you.

 

I'm sorry if my post came off as accusatory and not investigatory, but that was not my intention.

 

I do think that it would be helpful to have these things noted on the website with the very direct wording you just used in your post. In Luca Turin's blog, a lot of people pointed to the lab's ambiguous wording as an indication that something was awry. And this thread (going back to 2004!) seemed to have a lot of back and forth, with statements being made and then retracted, and no clear, conclusive answer from the lab staff. Even longtimers seemed to be very confused about the source of the oil.

 

 

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

again, thanks for the response. it was illuminating.

 

You are the reason this whole conversation came up again. You brought it up. You started an entire thread because you were nervous about your purchase, and asked for more info. Other people wondered, I'm sure, but you definitely did "care."

 

Beth already gave you a much more in-depth, targeted response than I would expect most people would, as so much of the info was already out there if one were to just look for it. But that's not enough? You need to keep poking her?

 

There is no way you're not being intentionally dense about this. Really.

 

 

[LadyMedb]

Honestly, I don't think the natural oil thing (just the pre-fabrication blend) was brought up in Beth's post, although it was wonderful and comprehensive.

 

Given that we shouldn't expect her to pop back in here again to answer, on the other hand, do you think we can talk about the natural versus synthetic thing? Since she was talking about extraction, I'm sure there are many natural oils in it, but I'll bet there are a few single-source synthetics as well...just my guess, though. Does anyone know for sure?

 

I really don't think jayne's questions were meant to be deliberately dense so much as obsessively truth-seeking, although perhaps I wouldn't have attempted the same with Luca Turin quotes.

Edited January 28, 2010 by LadyMedb

[Yvaine]

Jayne, I was also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were honestly inquisitive and, though you may have put your foot in it, it wasn't shit-stirring. I'm backing away from that opinion now.

 

You stated that Guerlain, etc use synthetics but that you are fine with that because you believe them to be quality. Beth has responded to you and plainly explained that she is very selective about her components and sure of the quality. She has also said she doesn't use prefab fragrance oils. This should be sufficient information for you to trust other brands, this should suffice for BPAL.

 

Besides, I believe if she breaks down her creative process to you in any further detail, she risks revealing proprietary information. If you genuinely want to pursue this line of inquiry, I really suggest you contact customer service directly. The community is clearly not going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction, and it's really upsetting a lot of people. If you're here to inflame emotions, mission accomplished. Move on.

 

 

[Chapanis]

Jayne, I was also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were honestly inquisitive and, though you may have put your foot in it, it wasn't shit-stirring. I'm backing away from that opinion now.

 

You stated that Guerlain, etc use synthetics but that you are fine with that because you believe them to be quality. Beth has responded to you and plainly explained that she is very selective about her components and sure of the quality. She has also said she doesn't use prefab fragrance oils. This should be sufficient information for you to trust other brands, this should suffice for BPAL.

 

Besides, I believe if she breaks down her creative process to you in any further detail, she risks revealing proprietary information. If you genuinely want to pursue this line of inquiry, I really suggest you contact customer service directly. The community is clearly not going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction, and it's really upsetting a lot of people. If you're here to inflame emotions, mission accomplished. Move on.

 

I concur.

[surf-tormented]

Thanks for clearly that up, Beth. It's good to know I'm supporting someone like you.

 

I'm sorry if my post came off as accusatory and not investigatory, but that was not my intention.

 

I do think that it would be helpful to have these things noted on the website with the very direct wording you just used in your post. In Luca Turin's blog, a lot of people pointed to the lab's ambiguous wording as an indication that something was awry. And this thread (going back to 2004!) seemed to have a lot of back and forth, with statements being made and then retracted, and no clear, conclusive answer from the lab staff. Even longtimers seemed to be very confused about the source of the oil.

 

 

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

again, thanks for the response. it was illuminating.

 

There are such things as "natural synthetics" which are blends of natural oils, made to resemble a plant that an essential oil can't be made out of, lilac comes to mind, but there are a lot of others. I know the term probably sounds contradictory, but it is an actual term. Then there are fixed oils, seed oils, essential oils, resins, essences, etc. The word natural can cover a lot of items. A lot of people get natural mixed with essential, and like I said before, some essentials can be harmful to the skin or the general health of people. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it is 100% healthy for a perfume.

 

I'm assuming BPAL uses all-natural components or as natural as they can get components bought from small companies. This hasn't been broken down chemically if they are natural synthetics, fixed oils, etc or maybe a combo of a lot of items. I wouldn't expect any company to give up where they get components or their breakdown, because in a lot of way it is a creative work much like creating a song or painting. But people who are connected to magickal groups and pagan ideals tend to want to have "real" components in their oils, because for one, real myrrh oil, for instance will have a better magickal and aromatherapy benefit than a pre-fab or synthetic blend. The problem lies with plants and other things that don't have an essential oil or essence, there are many plants that don't and also anything that comes from animals, from civet to ambergris, is probably a blend of oils or natural synthetic.

 

It is another reason why I tend to buy from small companies. Bigger perfume companies still use civet and ambergris and I am really against it, so I would rather not spray part of a dead animal, who was killed specifically to make me smell good. And also, it is nice to know that a natural synthetic was available, when it would take a ton of plants in the Amazon rainforest or some other threatened area to make a perfume, over just copying its notes with less expensive oils.

 

And BTW, I don't really care if you inflame the emotions of me or people on this forum. I feel it is important for people to ask questions and not accept blindly if any consumer product is right for them. I believe it is totally fine to have an opinion that isn't popular and have complete freedom to express ideas on the forum how you choose.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Madame Nyx

[carolsag]

Honestly, I don't think the natural oil thing (just the pre-fabrication blend) was brought up in Beth's post, although it was wonderful and comprehensive.

 

Given that we shouldn't expect her to pop back in here again to answer, on the other hand, do you think we can talk about the natural versus synthetic thing? Since she was talking about extraction, I'm sure there are many natural oils in it, but I'll bet there are a few single-source synthetics as well...just my guess, though. Does anyone know for sure?

 

I really don't think jayne's questions were meant to be deliberately dense so much as obsessively truth-seeking, although perhaps I wouldn't have attempted the same with Luca Turin quotes.

 

 

 

Yes, i would also like to know if the oils are all natural,because i have severe health issues.

[jayne]

To all who responded to my last comment...

 

As I said in my comment, I don't care if a perfume is synthetic or natural. I wear lots of synthetic perfumes. But I am a very curious person and I like getting to the bottom of something that I've start investigating. My initial question was:

 

I want to know if BPAL blends commercial fragrance oils to make their products. Are they essential oils that Beth makes herself? Are they essential oils that she buys? Are they synthetic oils made by BPAL in chemistry labs?

 

From everything I have read and based on everyone I have spoken to, I am under the impression that BPAL purchases component oils (some of which are synthetic) from small companies. None of those oils are pre-fabricated blends.

 

I don't like being told by numerous commenters that the oils are "all-natural" and but then have the owner of the company totally avoid discussing that aspect of the perfumes in an otherwise very thorough post.

 

I am honestly trying to be very polite while still getting clear answers. But if healthy curiosity from a consumer is "trolly" to you, then you really need to take a step back and examine yourself.

 

 

P.S. LadyMedb, you hit the nail on the head. Obsessively truthseeking is a kind of painfully accurate description for me.

Edited January 28, 2010 by jayne

[Chapanis]

This is now beyond the scope of healthy curiosity. Please step back and examine yourself.