Are bpal blends all-natural?

[Mamacat]

Did anyone ever hear an official response to the original question? (and I don't mean just quoting the website) I know a lot of places say CO2s should never be applied directly to the skin either and the absolutes are more concentrated even if they aren't real EOs. Of course I'm not saying that BPAL is cheap at all (on the contrary, Beth is a olfactory genius!), I too am just concerned about putting undiluted oils on my skin. I also am concerned because some are really bad for children and elderly such as eucalyptus (which is one note I really like). I totally understand keeping the blends a secret, and I honestly don't care whether or not it's synthetic, my only concern is how diluted the oils are. I did read the entire topic here and the question never really got answered concretely.

 

I hate to beat a dead horse and all, I am just wondering if anyone ever got an official response to this question rather than speculation (however educated it may be).

 

I'm assuming it's safe, but honestly long term effects of things are often difficult to tell and can take years. I think I'm a slatherer (my skin is eating up the few I have, heh!) and it's something that concerns me. I'm not saying "ZOMG I can never use these!" But it really would put my mind at ease to know someone got an official response to the inquiry.

 

I wonder if emailing customer service would put your mind at ease? Then you would get a real official answer.

[Stormslegacy]

Did anyone ever hear an official response to the original question? (and I don't mean just quoting the website) I know a lot of places say CO2s should never be applied directly to the skin either and the absolutes are more concentrated even if they aren't real EOs. Of course I'm not saying that BPAL is cheap at all (on the contrary, Beth is a olfactory genius!), I too am just concerned about putting undiluted oils on my skin. I also am concerned because some are really bad for children and elderly such as eucalyptus (which is one note I really like). I totally understand keeping the blends a secret, and I honestly don't care whether or not it's synthetic, my only concern is how diluted the oils are. I did read the entire topic here and the question never really got answered concretely.

 

I hate to beat a dead horse and all, I am just wondering if anyone ever got an official response to this question rather than speculation (however educated it may be).

 

I'm assuming it's safe, but honestly long term effects of things are often difficult to tell and can take years. I think I'm a slatherer (my skin is eating up the few I have, heh!) and it's something that concerns me. I'm not saying "ZOMG I can never use these!" But it really would put my mind at ease to know someone got an official response to the inquiry.

 

I wonder if emailing customer service would put your mind at ease? Then you would get a real official answer.

 

I will do so, thank you for your suggestion

[Nia]

Are the oils safe to put straight on to the skin then?

 

I have found that some BPAL's blends, while they're not irritant on first use, should not be aplied more than once in a while on the same skin spot. If I use, for example, Phobos, It has to be one day on my temples, one day on my neck, one day on my wrists..... Otherwise I get a strong itch that lasts for days.

[ivyandpeony]

Are you sensitive to citrus, Nia? Or are the spots where you're using Phobos getting any sun exposure when you're wearing it? Citrus oils are notorious for causing photosensitivity and the grapefruit in Phobos may be concentrated enough to be causing problems for you, either combined w/sun exposure or because you're particularly sensitive to it.

[Nia]

Are you sensitive to citrus, Nia? Or are the spots where you're using Phobos getting any sun exposure when you're wearing it? Citrus oils are notorious for causing photosensitivity and the grapefruit in Phobos may be concentrated enough to be causing problems for you, either combined w/sun exposure or because you're particularly sensitive to it.

 

The problem turned up on my wrists. I hardly ever go out in the sun, but I'll remember that.

[dronzeka]

Did anyone ever hear an official response to the original question? (and I don't mean just quoting the website) I know a lot of places say CO2s should never be applied directly to the skin either and the absolutes are more concentrated even if they aren't real EOs. Of course I'm not saying that BPAL is cheap at all (on the contrary, Beth is a olfactory genius!), I too am just concerned about putting undiluted oils on my skin. I also am concerned because some are really bad for children and elderly such as eucalyptus (which is one note I really like). I totally understand keeping the blends a secret, and I honestly don't care whether or not it's synthetic, my only concern is how diluted the oils are. I did read the entire topic here and the question never really got answered concretely.

I think it's pretty clear from everything everyone knows about the Lab that Beth wouldn't put out an unsafe product. Even if she weren't all ethical 'n' shit like that, it would be poor business practice! Apart from individual sensitivities to specific ingredients, if BPAL weren't skin safe, I'm sure Beth wouldn't sell it (and wear it! and test it on herself!).

 

My understanding from the website and reading this thread is that

 

1) all the materials in BPAL oils are natural (whether EOs, attars, absolutes, etc.)

2) BPAL is 85-100% "perfume oil"

3) "perfume oil" is NOT the same as pure essential oils (or attars or absolutes)

 

What I understand "perfume oil" to mean in this context is, "stuff made of natural components that smells good." Even when a blend is 100% "perfume oil", I don't think that at all has to mean it's 100% EOs etc - after all, jojoba and other carrier oils are natural oils, too. It's been mentioned plenty of times that some EOs plain aren't safe to be worn on the skin (individual success with doing so aside), and that some of them can't be used effectively without dilution because they're too thick etc. I also remember a mention of a spill at the lab where everyone had to vacate the room because the scent was so strong it was making people sick (anyone else remember that?). So clearly Beth isn't simply combining EOs and putting them in a bottle (although it's possible that blends tend to have much higher percentages of "skin-safe" EOs in which much smaller percentages of the less skin-safe are blended).

 

I would imagine that Beth's blends would have to include some percentage of what we call "carrier oil," but I don't even want to call it that here, because people sometimes seem to read "carrier oil" and see it as some kind of "watering down" of the "real" stuff. I don't see the "carrier oil" here as something that waters down the perfume, but something that's a necessary part of it, without which the perfume wouldn't exist. Hence not calling it "perfume in carrier oil" (which suggests it's just a vehicle), but plain old perfume oil.

 

Which is kind of my long and confusing way of restating what Macha said upthread:

 

I can answer part of that: it's ALL 100% natural. The Lab uses no synthetics.

 

As for 100% essential oils? They've never made any such claim. The web site states that all blends are 85-100% pure perfume oil, and made from plant-derived oils.

There are plenty of plant-derived non-essential oils, is what I'm thinking.

[maewitch]

There are plenty of plant-derived non-essential oils, is what I'm thinking.

 

Agreed. For example, an infused oil, where a plant material is steeped in oil for several weeks. (A tincture would be the equivalent with alcohol instead of oil.)

 

I've made a 'musky' oil that way by crushing up ambrette seeds and steeping them in jojoba.

[starslur]

Kind old topic, but I thought I'd put in my two cents! My mom is a massage therapist and essential oil enthusiast, so I've learned a lot about them from her, for the most part, and a little on my own.

 

Essential oils (high grade, usually marked as therapeutic grade essential oils) are gathered by steam distillation or cold-pressing. There are two "schools of thought" concerning essential oils, the French and the English (lol). While the English school says you should always dilute your oils, the French says that essential oils should always be used directly on the skin unless a negative reaction occurs. In that case, oil (NOT WATER) should be used on the afflicted area to reduce the irritation.

 

Because Beth uses steam distilled and cold-pressed oils, her materials are considered essential oils. Essential oils have an approximately infinite shelf life, but because BPAL oils are blends, the oil may not last as long. This isn't to say that the oils will "spoil", but the blend will be compromised after a certain amount of time.

 

So - Beth uses essential oils, but the product she produces is considered a perfume oil. Synthetics seem to be out of the question, but scents from plants where the oil can't be extracted through these means are created through a bouquet or blend (a combination of scents that approximate what it would really smell like). The site says that perfume oils are 85-100%, but consider what I said before about the difference between perfume oil/essential oil.

 

Hope that clears things up!

[Josh]

Do bpals contain any alcohol? I ask because today I was shipping some packages to other folks on this forum and the post office guy asked if there were any liquids or perishables and I said there were perfumes in there. He said I couldn't send them because USPS cannot ship anything with alcohol in it? I told him they were alcohol free and, without batting an eye, he said "oh ok" and processed them. Of course, I don't know if they're alcohol free, but with the amount of bpal in the mail system at any given time I figured other people may have been asked this question before?

 

I have a hard time believing anything with alcohol cannot be shipped thru USPS. I mean, what would happen if you ordered a commercial (alcohol) perfume online? Do those things have to go through UPS/DHS/FedEx?

[crimescenecleanup]

I've run into post office troubles as well. The reason they don't want people shipping perfumes is because most do use alcohol, which is extremely flammable.

 

I'm not sure how most commercial outfits that ship perfume get around this, perhaps they have a special permit? Anyway, I do know that the US postal service will not allow private individuals to ship alcohol based perfumes for this reason.

 

I've had an absolutely terrible time trying to explain to postal workers and customs agents that BPAL products are not alcohol based, so now I just say "It's a fragrance oil" or "it's an essential oil blend" and that seems to go over ok.

[Jenesis]

The UK Post Office won't send alcohol overseas either, so when they ask what my packages contain I just tell them "soap" or "body lotion" or something.

 

BPAL does not contain any alcohol, as far as I'm aware.

[Morrighana]

BPAL does not contain alcohol. I mark all of my shipments as "essential oils" or "aromatherapy supplies" if I'm sending other stuff too, and it always goes through ok.

 

Kind old topic, but I thought I'd put in my two cents! My mom is a massage therapist and essential oil enthusiast, so I've learned a lot about them from her, for the most part, and a little on my own.Essential oils (high grade, usually marked as therapeutic grade essential oils) are gathered by steam distillation or cold-pressing. There are two "schools of thought" concerning essential oils, the French and the English (lol). While the English school says you should always dilute your oils, the French says that essential oils should always be used directly on the skin unless a negative reaction occurs. In that case, oil (NOT WATER) should be used on the afflicted area to reduce the irritation.Because Beth uses steam distilled and cold-pressed oils, her materials are considered essential oils. Essential oils have an approximately infinite shelf life, but because BPAL oils are blends, the oil may not last as long. This isn't to say that the oils will "spoil", but the blend will be compromised after a certain amount of time.So - Beth uses essential oils, but the product she produces is considered a perfume oil. Synthetics seem to be out of the question, but scents from plants where the oil can't be extracted through these means are created through a bouquet or blend (a combination of scents that approximate what it would really smell like). The site says that perfume oils are 85-100%, but consider what I said before about the difference between perfume oil/essential oil.Hope that clears things up!

[talula_fairie]

Does anyone have any new info on this? Did anyone ever hear back from the lab?

 

I told a few people on Live Journal that the oils were 100% natural per what I read on this forum, but several argued that they are synthetic. Any info would be appreciated.

[ClareN]

The UK Post Office won't send alcohol overseas either, so when they ask what my packages contain I just tell them "soap" or "body lotion" or something.

 

BPAL does not contain any alcohol, as far as I'm aware.

I used to say "essential oils" at the post office to get around the "perfume = alcohol" thing, but then they told me that essential oils are banned from Australia Post because they're supposedly flammable. Now I say "bath oil samples", and if questioned further, I tell them it's synthetic fragrance oil. I know they aren't really synthetic, but it gets by.

 

talula_fairie: apparently they are 100% natural. It doesn't seem to be mentioned on the Lab site, but it's been discussed on this forum quite a bit. There is some recent discussion in the "Allergies and other reactions to oils" thread.

[Mamacat]

It is actually mentioned in the FAQ area of the lab site:

 

I'm vegan. Do your perfumes contain any animal-based products?

With the exception of our honey products, BPAL perfumes are vegan. Our 'civet' and 'ambergris' are bouquets, and thus, are composite scents created from plant-derived perfume oils combined to best aproximate the scent. Black Phoenix is entirely cruelty-free, as our four dogs, many fish, and resident cat will attest.

 

Link

 

 

When I mail international packages I either put "essential oil blends" or "fragrance oil".

[crimescenecleanup]

I just wanted to add that I thought starlurs posting was excellent and informative.

 

I recently met another massage therapist who has been studying aromatherapy for about twenty years and makes her own essential oil blends.

 

She demonstrated for me how she makes accords - she showed me her recipes for fresh pear, leather, and rainwater accords. It was eerie.

 

She basically mixed a few drops each of a bunch of different essential oils into a carrier oil - I think she used sweet lavender and a couple of evergreen and citrus extracts for the pear - and blended together they were an almost exact replica of the real thing.

 

She also had essential oils derived from things like dandelions, and various types of kelp that she had gotten from local botanists and herbalists that distill their own oils. Dandelions? Kelp? Who knew these things were available?

Then my brother brought back tinctures of local lichens and moss from his last trip to Reykjavik. Seriously, if folks are out their extracting essences from obscure things like ice lichens, I'm pretty sure BPAL has a pretty broad palette with which to work when they try to approximate with essential oils scents that are usually only available as synthetics.

 

I was skeptical for a long time that many scents could be recreated without synthetics, but the more I observe people working with plant-derived fragrance oils, the more convinced I am that perfume companies never have to touch synthetics to produce really gorgeous fragrances.

 

As for the the international shipping questions, when in doubt, I just write down "cosmetic samples" or "cosmetic oils" and that has seemed to work.

Edited August 19, 2008 by crimescenecleanup

[dzurlady]

Does anyone have any new info on this? Did anyone ever hear back from the lab?

 

I told a few people on Live Journal that the oils were 100% natural per what I read on this forum, but several argued that they are synthetic. Any info would be appreciated.

They are 100% natural - I know because awhile back the lab put one bottle of a prototype with a synthetic ingredient up on ebay, and there was a lot of discussion about how it was the first one, and Beth said they were experimenting with them but not sure they'd ever use them

 

The UK Post Office won't send alcohol overseas either, so when they ask what my packages contain I just tell them "soap" or "body lotion" or something.

 

BPAL does not contain any alcohol, as far as I'm aware.

I used to say "essential oils" at the post office to get around the "perfume = alcohol" thing, but then they told me that essential oils are banned from Australia Post because they're supposedly flammable. Now I say "bath oil samples", and if questioned further, I tell them it's synthetic fragrance oil. I know they aren't really synthetic, but it gets by.

 

talula_fairie: apparently they are 100% natural. It doesn't seem to be mentioned on the Lab site, but it's been discussed on this forum quite a bit. There is some recent discussion in the "Allergies and other reactions to oils" thread.

Wow, really? I'll have to start marking them as cosmetic samples, then.

[talula_fairie]

Mamacat, I actually did point people to that part of the FAQ, but they still didn't believe it. I think because that quote on the lab's website does not specifically say that ALL the blends are naturally derived. It just makes reference to that one specific way they make 'amber'

 

Here, see for yourself:

 

http://community.livejournal.com/naturalliving/4671205.html

 

Btw, I did email the lab, and here is the response:

 

Black Phoenix uses no synthetics, no fillers and no garbage. All of our scents are 100% naturally derived. With the exception of our honey products, BPAL perfumes are vegan. Our 'civet' and 'ambergris' are bouquets, and thus, are composite scents created from plant-derived perfume oils combined to best approximate the scent. Black Phoenix is entirely cruelty-free, as our four dogs, many fish, and resident lab cat will attest.

 

 

 

While we use no preservatives, our oil blends will last for over one year, if they are cared for correctly. Please keep all of our products in a cool, dark place to maximize their shelf life.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, we cannot further divulge our ingredients due to protecting our recipes from competitors.

 

Edited August 28, 2008 by talula_fairie

[visualworlds]

Hiya

 

I think I posted in the wrong thread before, oops!

 

I am ok with fragrance oils and love bpal, so I'm just curious here

 

As far as I know a scent such as strawberry must be a fragrance oil and not an essential oil because it isn't possible... so I am assuming bpal is natural per say, but that it does use fragrance oils in addition to essential oil...?

[talula_fairie]

Hiya

 

I think I posted in the wrong thread before, oops!

 

I am ok with fragrance oils and love bpal, so I'm just curious here

 

As far as I know a scent such as strawberry must be a fragrance oil and not an essential oil because it isn't possible... so I am assuming bpal is natural per say, but that it does use fragrance oils in addition to essential oil...?

 

There was a post about three posts up, Here: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1211273 that kind of explained how that might be possible. Obviously BPAL won't give away their recipes, but it makes me think that maybe it could be done. *shrug*

[maewitch]

Hiya

 

I think I posted in the wrong thread before, oops!

 

I am ok with fragrance oils and love bpal, so I'm just curious here

 

As far as I know a scent such as strawberry must be a fragrance oil and not an essential oil because it isn't possible... so I am assuming bpal is natural per say, but that it does use fragrance oils in addition to essential oil...?

 

No, as the comment above states, they don't use synthetics. To create a note that is not found as a natural extract, they use bouquets of other natural essences to create that note - whether they blend that themselves or obtain a bouquet note from a supplier. Beth has talked before about how, for example, she makes her own accord for an orchid note, and sometimes blends get discontinued precisely because the supplier for a particular note blend no longer produces it and there are no alternatives.

Edited August 28, 2008 by maewitch

[visualworlds]

There was a post about three posts up, Here: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1211273 that kind of explained how that might be possible. Obviously BPAL won't give away their recipes, but it makes me think that maybe it could be done. *shrug*

 

Interesting. I wonder how that blending could be done with candy scents though? I mean like candy corn, cake, stuff like that.

Edited August 28, 2008 by visualworlds

[talula_fairie]

There was a post about three posts up, Here: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1211273 that kind of explained how that might be possible. Obviously BPAL won't give away their recipes, but it makes me think that maybe it could be done. *shrug*

 

Interesting. I wonder how that blending could be done with candy scents though? I mean like candy corn, cake, stuff like that.

 

Well that's the mystery of it all, I guess.

 

There are some sweet smelling naturally derived oils out there, vanilla for example. Maybe that mixed with flowers?

 

I really have no idea though. I've never worked with perfumes.

[TooMuchTemptation]

There was a post about three posts up, Here: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1211273 that kind of explained how that might be possible. Obviously BPAL won't give away their recipes, but it makes me think that maybe it could be done. *shrug*

 

Interesting. I wonder how that blending could be done with candy scents though? I mean like candy corn, cake, stuff like that.

 

 

Well I guess that's the art of it. Finding the items that evoke a certain smell and then blending them. It involves having a sharp nose, and a good scent memory, and the willingness to sniff all kinds of things to find the right ingredients. It totally blows my mind that the Lab can do this while restricting themselves to naturallly derived ingredients. I also think that this is what makes the scents so unique.

 

Edited to Add: I know for example, that seaweed extracts can be used to evoke a salty, oceanic scent, and that Candy Corn is primarily flavored with honey and wax, both of which can be made into scent absolutes. You can get extracts of butter, cocoa,vanilla, and various spices, which is basically what we smell when we smell cake.

 

Other than the typical floral notes that we're all familiar with, there is a huge palette of oils, resins, absolutes and concretes that can be blended in an infinite number of ways.

Edited August 28, 2008 by TooMuchTemptation

[ClareN]

I have to say, it would be helpful if there were a clearer statement about this on the Lab's website. It comes up so often, and the statement that is usually pointed to in the FAQ is technically about veganism, not about whether the oils are all-natural. If you were skeptical about BPAL's use of synthetics, you'd notice that it only says that the civet and ambergris blends are made of plant oils. It doesn't have anything to say about whether the strawberry and caramel blends are made of plant oils (they could be synthetic but still be vegan). This is what talula_fairie's friends were talking about.

 

Personally, I do believe that BPAL is all-natural - but that's only from what I've read on the forum, not from the site itself. Why not be proud of this and state it clearly in the FAQ?