Are bpal blends all-natural?

[halo0073]

i think that may be the most epic response to any internet thread i've read, anywhere...

 

 

agree!!!!

[lookingglass]

Thank you, Beth. We love you and all the Labbies!

[surf-tormented]

Honestly, I don't think the natural oil thing (just the pre-fabrication blend) was brought up in Beth's post, although it was wonderful and comprehensive.

 

Given that we shouldn't expect her to pop back in here again to answer, on the other hand, do you think we can talk about the natural versus synthetic thing? Since she was talking about extraction, I'm sure there are many natural oils in it, but I'll bet there are a few single-source synthetics as well...just my guess, though. Does anyone know for sure?

 

I really don't think jayne's questions were meant to be deliberately dense so much as obsessively truth-seeking, although perhaps I wouldn't have attempted the same with Luca Turin quotes.

 

 

 

Yes, i would also like to know if the oils are all natural,because i have severe health issues.

 

 

Weird. I was going to say in my post that some people have health problems and therefore would probably want to know what it is an oil they use.

[Delirium1009]

Here's some relevant posts from earlier in this thread (I edited them down slightly so that the parts that are relevant to synthetics in BPAL are easier to spot, but if you click on the arrow in the top of the post you can go and read the whole thing, if you want). (Also, I was wrong before - there are a couple of prototypes with synthetics around, some of which came from a forum raffle and some of which were iirc auctioned on ebay.)

 

I think it was removed when Beth started experimenting with aldehydes (the synth note in some unreleased blends like...Toxin, I believe?). Since those blends never made it to the catalogue, the response you got from CS makes sense. I seem to recall Beth saying something about the FAQ needing to be updated.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the full list of prototypes in circulation that may contain aldehydes are Toxin, Nihil, and Zero. They were involved in the forum fundraiser raffle last year. Nothing currently on offer from BPAL contains synthetics, or the Lab would be very clear about saying so.

 

 

Btw, I did email the lab, and here is the response:

 

Black Phoenix uses no synthetics, no fillers and no garbage. All of our scents are 100% naturally derived. With the exception of our honey products, BPAL perfumes are vegan. Our 'civet' and 'ambergris' are bouquets, and thus, are composite scents created from plant-derived perfume oils combined to best approximate the scent.[/b] Black Phoenix is entirely cruelty-free, as our four dogs, many fish, and resident lab cat will attest.

 

While we use no preservatives, our oil blends will last for over one year, if they are cared for correctly. Please keep all of our products in a cool, dark place to maximize their shelf life.

 

Unfortunately, we cannot further divulge our ingredients due to protecting our recipes from competitors.

 

The revision of the faq has been in the works for about a year. I've been insanely busy at work and in my personal life, so the revision ended up on the backburner. Kathy and Bill have a list about 60 pages long of things I should address there, and I'm still working on it. Honestly, it isn't going to get done any time soon. Sincerest apologies if that bothers people, but I just don't have any time at all right now.

 

After the sales of the Synthetic Line prototypes, I could no longer state that we have never sold anything that doesn't contain synthetics, so I pulled the statement completely lest there be a misunderstanding.

 

When I'm not bombed by a million BPAL and BPTP issues and the imminent birth of Junior, I'll get back to revising the faq. =)

 

I thought that this answered the question about all natural or not pretty well.

 

 

 

[Siberia]

I don't know a lot about perfumery, but I doubt that the oils could be all natural - it simply isn't possible to capture all of the fragrances used in perfumes from nature - for example, you can't extract essential oils from fruits like apples and peaches. So certain of the components must be "synthetic," that is synthesized from other materials. However, synthetic in this sense doesn't necessarily mean that the materials used to create the accords aren't natural.

 

I don't really care one way or another if I like how it smells and it doesn't irritate my skin.

[jayne]

You are the reason this whole conversation came up again. You brought it up. You started an entire thread because you were nervous about your purchase, and asked for more info. Other people wondered, I'm sure, but you definitely did "care."

 

Beth already gave you a much more in-depth, targeted response than I would expect most people would, as so much of the info was already out there if one were to just look for it. But that's not enough? You need to keep poking her

 

There is no way you're not being intentionally dense about this. Really.

 

I cared about whether they were using commercial prefabricated blends intended for lotions and candles. I got an answer to that and I'm grateful. Alternatively, I'm not personally invested in natural vs. synthetic (although other people with health issues are), but I would still like a definitive answer and have received no straightforward answer from lab staff about that topic.

 

Clearly there isn't enough information out there on the natural vs. synthetic question since many people give contradictory answers and the lab remains totally mum on the subject.

 

I'm getting annoyed with being picked on just because I want a straight answer. What kind of world do you live in where a consumer asking if a product is all-natural is the same as harassment?

[Lorelai1945]

If wearing synthetics is not an issue, then continuing to press this in a rather terse manner feels more like an attack on the company and you trying to be "proved right" somehow- like you're trying to prove some sort of flaw in Bpal- than it does actual concern over your use of the product. I think that is what people are having a problem with. If you had genuinely been solely wondering about natural v. synthetics in the first place, it seems to me that it would have been unnecessary to bring in comments from negative critics and statements that were written in a way that were offensive to people. Multiple times you've been told to contact customer service directly, and instead you keep posting in this section almost like putting on a show. People have a right to know what is in the products they purchase, but if that's what you really want, I think you've gone about it all wrong. I'm sorry if you can't see that. Creating drama for the sake of drama is not trying to be a good consumer.

[Chapanis]

If wearing synthetics is not an issue, then continuing to press this in a rather terse manner feels more like an attack on the company and you trying to be "proved right" somehow- like you're trying to prove some sort of flaw in Bpal- than it does actual concern over your use of the product. I think that is what people are having a problem with. If you had genuinely been solely wondering about natural v. synthetics in the first place, it seems to me that it would have been unnecessary to bring in comments from negative critics and statements that were written in a way that were offensive to people. Multiple times you've been told to contact customer service directly, and instead you keep posting in this section almost like putting on a show. People have a right to know what is in the products they purchase, but if that's what you really want, I think you've gone about it all wrong. I'm sorry if you can't see that. Creating drama for the sake of drama is not trying to be a good consumer.

 

This. Exactly.

 

[surf-tormented]

To all who responded to my last comment...

 

As I said in my comment, I don't care if a perfume is synthetic or natural. I wear lots of synthetic perfumes. But I am a very curious person and I like getting to the bottom of something that I've start investigating. My initial question was:

 

I want to know if BPAL blends commercial fragrance oils to make their products. Are they essential oils that Beth makes herself? Are they essential oils that she buys? Are they synthetic oils made by BPAL in chemistry labs?

 

From everything I have read and based on everyone I have spoken to, I am under the impression that BPAL purchases component oils (some of which are synthetic) from small companies. None of those oils are pre-fabricated blends.

 

I don't like being told by numerous commenters that the oils are "all-natural" and but then have the owner of the company totally avoid discussing that aspect of the perfumes in an otherwise very thorough post.

 

I am honestly trying to be very polite while still getting clear answers. But if healthy curiosity from a consumer is "trolly" to you, then you really need to take a step back and examine yourself.

 

 

P.S. LadyMedb, you hit the nail on the head. Obsessively truthseeking is a kind of painfully accurate description for me.

 

I don't think asking questions is wrong and Beth's post was vague in that area, so I feel you have a right to ask. I am not sure who you would ask though. If their customer service is busy and their DSL is down right now, I am not sure how fast you would get an answer. Like I said before I assume Beth's oils are made of all-natural oils and components in most cases and then maybe natural synthetics or another category I would just label "other".

 

I'm curious in a way about it, as you are. But be it, I don't have health problems or allergies to specific oils and I like the way BPAL's product smells, I am ok for the content of them to be vague. I've never, for instance, emailed AIRS or Ava Luxe to ask them how natural their oils are. I like those products as they are. People don't like giving up their sources and I respect that, but an yea or nay on the all natural front, could be given a simple answer. I should note, that natural is a very blanket term, covering many different components. The word natural is vague, even if it is said their oils are all natural. For all-natural can at times, not be healthy, there are a lot of toxic plants in the world. Of course, if the answer is nay, then there has to be a follow up of what is natural and what isn't natural and basically, that could take a long time. And a nay doesn't mean that the oils are bunk either, which some people might think.

 

My only evidence to support the all-natural idea for BPAL is my own, being that people into pagan or magickal circles tend to want to use the best stuff possible for their items. Sure, some might use cheap stuff, but that isn't the norm from the people I hang around. And even if there is a synthetic here or there, it is probably only because the maker can't find something better to use. Perfume is a tricky business and it is a craft. It takes a lot of afford to set up perfumes and bring them into light and couple this with running a whole business, I am amazed of what BPAL has become. It's a magickal little being all its own.

[starfish327]

You are the reason this whole conversation came up again. You brought it up. You started an entire thread because you were nervous about your purchase, and asked for more info. Other people wondered, I'm sure, but you definitely did "care."

 

Beth already gave you a much more in-depth, targeted response than I would expect most people would, as so much of the info was already out there if one were to just look for it. But that's not enough? You need to keep poking her

 

There is no way you're not being intentionally dense about this. Really.

 

I cared about whether they were using commercial prefabricated blends intended for lotions and candles. I got an answer to that and I'm grateful. Alternatively, I'm not personally invested in natural vs. synthetic (although other people with health issues are), but I would still like a definitive answer and have received no straightforward answer from lab staff about that topic.

 

Clearly there isn't enough information out there on the natural vs. synthetic question since many people give contradictory answers and the lab remains totally mum on the subject.

 

I'm getting annoyed with being picked on just because I want a straight answer. What kind of world do you live in where a consumer asking if a product is all-natural is the same as harassment?

 

you are most likely not getting a direct answer because you are NOT in fact asking the right people who would have that information. it has been suggested numerous times that you contact the company directly, and you seem to be more interested in asking people who, while perhaps being deeply involved in this comm, are not actually working with the oils.

 

the lab may be 'mum' because they have, quite frankly, better things to be doing with their time than scoping the boards for random customer service questions that pop up. the fact that the owner of the company herself gave you an exceptionally through answer to the vast majority of your questions is telling in and of itself. the fact that you continue to press the issue and look for things to question is telling as well.

 

and yes that question has been answered on that thread. in short: beth made a line of protos once with synthetics. she didn't release. she doesn't use the term all natural anymore because of that line. however the blends since then have been, to my knowledge after reading that thread, all natural in that they are not created chemicals.

 

a customer asking a question is not harrassment. not approaching the appropriate people repeatedly will in fact raise red flags for people.

[surf-tormented]

I'm getting annoyed with being picked on just because I want a straight answer. What kind of world do you live in where a consumer asking if a product is all-natural is the same as harassment?

 

Welcome to the BPAL forum.

 

[jayne]

Here's some relevant posts from earlier in this thread (I edited them down slightly so that the parts that are relevant to synthetics in BPAL are easier to spot, but if you click on the arrow in the top of the post you can go and read the whole thing, if you want). (Also, I was wrong before - there are a couple of prototypes with synthetics around, some of which came from a forum raffle and some of which were iirc auctioned on ebay.)

 

I think it was removed when Beth started experimenting with aldehydes (the synth note in some unreleased blends like...Toxin, I believe?). Since those blends never made it to the catalogue, the response you got from CS makes sense. I seem to recall Beth saying something about the FAQ needing to be updated.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the full list of prototypes in circulation that may contain aldehydes are Toxin, Nihil, and Zero. They were involved in the forum fundraiser raffle last year. Nothing currently on offer from BPAL contains synthetics, or the Lab would be very clear about saying so.

 

 

Btw, I did email the lab, and here is the response:

 

Black Phoenix uses no synthetics, no fillers and no garbage. All of our scents are 100% naturally derived. With the exception of our honey products, BPAL perfumes are vegan. Our 'civet' and 'ambergris' are bouquets, and thus, are composite scents created from plant-derived perfume oils combined to best approximate the scent.[/b] Black Phoenix is entirely cruelty-free, as our four dogs, many fish, and resident lab cat will attest.

 

While we use no preservatives, our oil blends will last for over one year, if they are cared for correctly. Please keep all of our products in a cool, dark place to maximize their shelf life.

 

Unfortunately, we cannot further divulge our ingredients due to protecting our recipes from competitors.

 

The revision of the faq has been in the works for about a year. I've been insanely busy at work and in my personal life, so the revision ended up on the backburner. Kathy and Bill have a list about 60 pages long of things I should address there, and I'm still working on it. Honestly, it isn't going to get done any time soon. Sincerest apologies if that bothers people, but I just don't have any time at all right now.

 

After the sales of the Synthetic Line prototypes, I could no longer state that we have never sold anything that doesn't contain synthetics, so I pulled the statement completely lest there be a misunderstanding.

 

When I'm not bombed by a million BPAL and BPTP issues and the imminent birth of Junior, I'll get back to revising the faq. =)

 

I thought that this answered the question about all natural or not pretty well.

 

 

Thank you for digging all these up. I had read them previously and they were what I was referring to when I mentioned statements and retractions. What I gathered from this was that previously they were all-natural and they started (and abandoned) the synth line and so they retracted their claims on being all-natural. And the statement about being all-natural is the official statement and came after the abandonment of the synth line? And after the retraction, no new perfumes have been created that use synthetics?

[copyshopclerk]

This has been stated before by Beth and others, but it bears repeating since there seems to still be confusion.

 

I think an important question which people who are wondering "are there synthetics in BPAL?" need to ask, and that is

 

Synthetic what?

 

 

BPAL is vegan (aside from honey), so that means every blend that lists leather or musk or civet or ambergris or blood or meat or milk as a note does not really contain those ingredients.

 

There is no real blood in your BPAL, I promise

 

But Beth will use bouquets to approximate the scent of those ingredients. AFAIK she blends those bouquets herself and what makes them up is proprietary. Fair enough, because if she listed step by step instructions on how to make her stuff everyone could just do it themselves and not buy her work.

 

(though I'm sure I'm one of many wondering how she got Gore Shock to smell like bloody meat with no animal ingredients)

 

 

So if by "synthetic" you mean "didn't actually come from blood/ambergris/musk/etc", then yes, those BPAL blends contain synthetic mixes, called bouquets. They are made from blends of plant extract (which is listed on the FAQ page), but together they make a synthetic approximation of a nonvegan ingredient.

 

Basically the only reason you'll need to know what, specifically, goes into a bouquet is if you have an allergy. So let's say, for instance, you're allergic to rose and you want to try a blend that doesn't have rose listed but it has, say, pink musk* (or other nonvegan ingredient). You can write to the lab and ask "Hey, I'm allergic to rose and 'SAMPLE BLEND' looks really good. Is there rose in that one?" And they'll let you know.

 

*I don't have any clue if rose extract is part of the pink musk bouquet, I just picked an example

 

Does that help?

 

 

[starfish327]

I'm getting annoyed with being picked on just because I want a straight answer. What kind of world do you live in where a consumer asking if a product is all-natural is the same as harassment?

 

Welcome to the BPAL forum.

 

or internet comms in general.

[jayne]

This has been stated before by Beth and others, but it bears repeating since there seems to still be confusion.

 

I think an important question which people who are wondering "are there synthetics in BPAL?" need to ask, and that is

 

Synthetic what?

 

 

BPAL is vegan (aside from honey), so that means every blend that lists leather or musk or civet or ambergris or blood or meat or milk as a note does not really contain those ingredients.

 

There is no real blood in your BPAL, I promise

 

But Beth will use bouquets to approximate the scent of those ingredients. AFAIK she blends those bouquets herself and what makes them up is proprietary. Fair enough, because if she listed step by step instructions on how to make her stuff everyone could just do it themselves and not buy her work.

 

(though I'm sure I'm one of many wondering how she got Gore Shock to smell like bloody meat with no animal ingredients)

 

 

So if by "synthetic" you mean "didn't actually come from blood/ambergris/musk/etc", then yes, those BPAL blends contain synthetic mixes, called bouquets. They are made from blends of plant extract (which is listed on the FAQ page), but together they make a synthetic approximation of a nonvegan ingredient.

 

Basically the only reason you'll need to know what, specifically, goes into a bouquet is if you have an allergy. So let's say, for instance, you're allergic to rose and you want to try a blend that doesn't have rose listed but it has, say, pink musk* (or other nonvegan ingredient). You can write to the lab and ask "Hey, I'm allergic to rose and 'SAMPLE BLEND' looks really good. Is there rose in that one?" And they'll let you know.

 

*I don't have any clue if rose extract is part of the pink musk bouquet, I just picked an example

 

Does that help?

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. I don't consider bouquets made from various essential oils to be synthetic. To me, synthetic means that you had to perform a chemical reaction to create the note.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfume#Synthetic_sources

 

"Many modern perfumes contain synthesized odorants. Synthetics can provide fragrances which are not found in nature. For instance, Calone, a compound of synthetic origin, imparts a fresh ozonous metallic marine scent that is widely used in contemporary perfumes. Synthetic aromatics are often used as an alternate source of compounds that are not easily obtained from natural sources. For example, linalool and coumarin are both naturally occurring compounds that can be inexpensively synthesized from terpenes. Orchid scents (typically salicylates) are usually not obtained directly from the plant itself but are instead synthetically created to match the fragrant compounds found in various orchids."

 

Edit: I know you all aren't going to be fond of my beloved Luca Turin, but here he is in a TED Talk discussing how he created a synthetic fragrance compound. It's honestly really fascinating and even if you don't like synthetics, it's worth a listen.

 

Edited January 28, 2010 by jayne

[surf-tormented]

I'm getting annoyed with being picked on just because I want a straight answer. What kind of world do you live in where a consumer asking if a product is all-natural is the same as harassment?

 

Welcome to the BPAL forum.

 

or internet comms in general.

 

That's true too! LOL!

 

I am, however, finding out a bit more about synthetics and where to look up that information. I used to make oils for clients, but they were for bath or anointing purposes and made of Essential oils and a base oil. But these do not keep very long.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Madame Nyx

[Laurel the Woodfairy]

Late to the party, but just wanted to tell Beth that, as usual, she is awesome. Not many posts on here make me tear up, but damn, girl, yours did!. I love you and all the Labbies. And Forumites.

 

Also, I am internally amused by all the stuff about "haute" parfum vs. Yankee Candle-scents, because I wear BPAL exclusively and it is honestly hard to out-snob me!

[katestamps]

This has been stated before by Beth and others, but it bears repeating since there seems to still be confusion.

 

I think an important question which people who are wondering "are there synthetics in BPAL?" need to ask, and that is

 

Synthetic what?

 

 

BPAL is vegan (aside from honey), so that means every blend that lists leather or musk or civet or ambergris or blood or meat or milk as a note does not really contain those ingredients.

 

There is no real blood in your BPAL, I promise

 

But Beth will use bouquets to approximate the scent of those ingredients. AFAIK she blends those bouquets herself and what makes them up is proprietary. Fair enough, because if she listed step by step instructions on how to make her stuff everyone could just do it themselves and not buy her work.

 

(though I'm sure I'm one of many wondering how she got Gore Shock to smell like bloody meat with no animal ingredients)

 

 

So if by "synthetic" you mean "didn't actually come from blood/ambergris/musk/etc", then yes, those BPAL blends contain synthetic mixes, called bouquets. They are made from blends of plant extract (which is listed on the FAQ page), but together they make a synthetic approximation of a nonvegan ingredient.

 

Basically the only reason you'll need to know what, specifically, goes into a bouquet is if you have an allergy. So let's say, for instance, you're allergic to rose and you want to try a blend that doesn't have rose listed but it has, say, pink musk* (or other nonvegan ingredient). You can write to the lab and ask "Hey, I'm allergic to rose and 'SAMPLE BLEND' looks really good. Is there rose in that one?" And they'll let you know.

 

*I don't have any clue if rose extract is part of the pink musk bouquet, I just picked an example

 

Does that help?

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. I don't consider bouquets made from various essential oils to be synthetic. To me, synthetic means that you had to perform a chemical reaction to create the note.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfume#Synthetic_sources

 

"Many modern perfumes contain synthesized odorants. Synthetics can provide fragrances which are not found in nature. For instance, Calone, a compound of synthetic origin, imparts a fresh ozonous metallic marine scent that is widely used in contemporary perfumes. Synthetic aromatics are often used as an alternate source of compounds that are not easily obtained from natural sources. For example, linalool and coumarin are both naturally occurring compounds that can be inexpensively synthesized from terpenes. Orchid scents (typically salicylates) are usually not obtained directly from the plant itself but are instead synthetically created to match the fragrant compounds found in various orchids."

I believe, beyond the information which has been posted here, that you would have to contact the lab to get information as to which blends contain synthetics of the type to which you refer. Being new to the forum, you might not be aware of the number of rip-off artists who attempt to profit from Beth's work by duping her scents, however it is an ongoing problem. This being the case, I can certainly understand a desire to preserve the integrity and secrecy of her recipes. After all, you wouldn't ask Chanel to provide the details of the sources for their scents and I believe she deserves the same courtesy.

 

That said, the lab has an excellent reputation for responding to people who have legitimate allergy concerns. As someone who has broken out in hives several times when sprayed with various department store perfumes, I certainly understand the concerns of the allergic and urge you to contact them with any allergy queries. I know they've been helpful with mine. The joy of having such a broad general catalog is that there is something for just about everyone.

[jayne]

I believe, beyond the information which has been posted here, that you would have to contact the lab to get information as to which blends contain synthetics of the type to which you refer. Being new to the forum, you might not be aware of the number of rip-off artists who attempt to profit from Beth's work by duping her scents, however it is an ongoing problem. This being the case, I can certainly understand a desire to preserve the integrity and secrecy of her recipes. After all, you wouldn't ask Chanel to provide the details of the sources for their scents and I believe she deserves the same courtesy.

 

That said, the lab has an excellent reputation for responding to people who have legitimate allergy concerns. As someone who has broken out in hives several times when sprayed with various department store perfumes, I certainly understand the concerns of the allergic and urge you to contact them with any allergy queries. I know they've been helpful with mine. The joy of having such a broad general catalog is that there is something for just about everyone.

 

Ok, I started an email a little bit ago upon the (many) suggestions of commenters. I need to focus my energy there, you're right. I'll send it out tonight.

 

And for the record, I understand perfumers can be very secretive about their formulas. I appreciate that. I'm not asking for names of companies or recipes for accords or anything like that. I just want a yes or no to the all-natural question. I don't imagine that information would be a huge revelation for scammers.

[Yvaine]

This forum cannot give a definitive answer as to the components of the lab's oils.

 

It has been discussed, opinions and experiences have been offered, previous posts have been quoted. There is nothing more solid that this community can offer you. It can go on and on and on ad nauseum, but black and white answers can only come from the lab and if that is what you actually want, that is where you should be directing your questions. You can repeat the question here all you like, but only the lab is equipped to give you the degree of specificity you require.

 

While the labbies are active on this forum, they cannot be expected to address every question posed to them here. Frankly, as fraught as this thread has become, it wouldn't surprise me if they were hesitant to post here again. Orders take several weeks to ship. I am sure that, even though they may be backlogged with orders and emails due to recent technical problems, you will receive an answer before you receive your oils if you have emailed them. I have had reason myself to contact CS more than once and without fail I have always gotten personal and attentive replies.

 

eta: I spent a while composing this and so did not see your post immediately before mine, Jayne. I think it's the best step you can take.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Yvaine

[Dark Alice]

This forum cannot give a definitive answer as to the components of the lab's oils.

 

It has been discussed, opinions and experiences have been offered, previous posts have been quoted. There is nothing more solid that this community can offer you. It can go on and on and on ad nauseum, but black and white answers can only come from the lab and if that is what you actually want, that is where you should be directing your questions. You can repeat the question here all you like, but only the lab is equipped to give you the degree of specificity you require.

 

While the labbies are active on this forum, they cannot be expected to address every question posed to them here. Frankly, as fraught as this thread has become, it wouldn't surprise me if they were hesitant to post here again. Orders take several weeks to ship. I am sure that, even though they may be backlogged with orders and emails due to recent technical problems, you will receive an answer before you receive your oils if you have emailed them. I have had reason myself to contact CS more than once and without fail I have always gotten personal and attentive replies.

 

 

[beachbabealways]

And for the record, I understand perfumers can be very secretive about their formulas. I appreciate that. I'm not asking for names of companies or recipes for accords or anything like that. I just want a yes or no to the all-natural question. I don't imagine that information would be a huge revelation for scammers.

 

So... Can anyone tell me more about the general source of the oils?

 

Actually jayne you did ask the question as noted above in your post yesterday.

[naeelah]

It has been discussed, opinions and experiences have been offered, previous posts have been quoted. There is nothing more solid that this community can offer you. It can go on and on and on ad nauseum, but black and white answers can only come from the lab and if that is what you actually want, that is where you should be directing your questions. You can repeat the question here all you like, but only the lab is equipped to give you the degree of specificity you require.

 

I heartily second everything yvaine said -- especially for people with serious health concerns

 

However, I just wanted to add generally that the lab HAS replied here and has replied to an intrepid person's e-mail, as quoted up thread from Aug '08. Jayne absolutely should e-mail the lab with further questions, but I will not be surprised if she receives the same FAQ answer that someone got a year and a half ago. That is the answer.

[LadyMedb]

You know, I sort of wanted to know, too - that email response was really informative.

 

It's good to know she's not using synthetics - not from a perfumery perspective, because there are some gorgeous molecules out there, but from a more spiritual and dare I say magickal one. (Yes, I'm one of those - please don't run away)

 

And the whole thing in the big Beth post about actually using rose otto when she lists rose otto is really cool - I'd hoped, but never actually expected, that the more expensive components Beth lists actually would be available in a blend for such a relatively small price. The whole single-cost thing fascinates me, too - I wonder how they even it out so they still make money and we keep coming back for more.

 

Honestly, I'm glad for this thread's content, if not for its vibe - I learned a lot!

Edited January 28, 2010 by LadyMedb

[cuervosueno]

Lord....tempest in a teapot, and I'm sorry Beth had to step in and respond to something she has already talked about. Repeatedly.

 

Jayne, you're stirring things up for no apparent reason. Wasn't clear if it was curiosity or shitstirring at first, but now it is pretty clear which it is. Why are you so concerned with whether some components might be synthetic or not when you've already told us (repeatedly) about your love of high end perfumes, and even discussed how you like perfumers make things "molecule by molecule" (ie. synthetic). You got your answer about where Beth's components come from (and frankly to suggest she was using oils meant for candles is another example of how you're trying to stir things up). Now stop. If you don't like the perfume, fine. If you do, that's fine too. But this supposed "curiosity" is bullshit.

 

And some people who are concerned about this for so-called health reasons? I'm not speaking about all of you, but some of you have been around long enough to either know if BPAL works for you or not, and don't need to be demanding on that issue, especially after Beth already made it clear where she gets her components. If there is something that people know they are allergic to, that's different, and then you should talk to the lab directly. I really don't see that knowing about synthetic vs. nonsynthetic is going to have much in general to do with health issues (though a specific component might, and then, again, talk to the lab. The fact they will even address these kind of issues says something about their integrity).

 

Anyway, I think that by far the wisest thing to do now--now that we have the information from Beth about where her components come from (not that she hasn't said this all before)--is to ignore the trolling, and let the (non)drama die down.