How full is full?

[lilium]

Thank you for explaining, saralaughs. My English really isn't as good as it should be.

[saralaughs]

Your welcome! I think your English is fine. Variances within bottle manufacturing can be a bit daunting to realize and understand these days. We're so used to seeing Coca-cola and Pepsi bottles which are all *exactly the same* that we don't realize not all manufacturing processes (and therefore bottles) are going to be like that.

 

Best way to be sure of your fill? Measure it out yourself. It can be painstaking to do and You have to allow for some loss of oil from you doing it but you can do it. That and trust the person you're dealing with. ::shrug::

[cuervosueno]

Although really, does anyone believe full to top of the label is full? I do not consider that full and would not, not under any circumstances. If I was selling it, I would describe it as full to top of the label, not "full," even if I got it from the lab that way (which I never have in the 6 years I've been buying BPAL, btw). Sometimes a lab bottle is full in the neck, sometimes just in the shoulders of the bottle, but I have NEVER seen a lab bottle be only full to the top of the label.

 

Sorry, Illium, but I think whoever sold this to you did not describe the level accurately, and I would not consider it full.

[saralaughs]

More and more the label is moving 'up' the bottle. Some of the protos I've gotten from etsy, the label is *right underneath the shoulder*. Measuring by label, while I admittedly do it, isn't an accurate assesment.

[cuervosueno]

More and more the label is moving 'up' the bottle. Some of the protos I've gotten from etsy, the label is *right underneath the shoulder*. Measuring by label, while I admittedly do it, isn't an accurate assesment.

 

That may well be, but if that were the case, as a seller, I would describe it as such. To say that a bottle is full, when it sounds, in Illium's case, that it clearly is not, is highly problematic, and I think the seller should have tried harder for an accurate description.

[saralaughs]

I do agree that sellers need to accurately describe where the fill level is.

[Wwindy]

I've had bottles come from the Lab barely above the top of the label -- in fact, several of my early purchases came that way. I was astonished the first time I heard someone specify that "full" to them meant that the oil level was into the neck, as I've only had a pretty small percentage of my purchases show up like that. *shrug* Happens with imps, too...

 

(sorry, posted too soon! I meant to add that yes, I agree that a level like that is something that should be mentioned, even if that was how it came in the first place.)

Edited June 16, 2011 by Wwindy

[GypsyRoseRed]

I think that's definitely one of those things that varies, but the seller definitely ought to post a picture or accurately specify where the oil level is.

[meaganola]

One thing I noticed about this query that no one has touched on: These oils are four years old. I've had levels in quite a few bottles go down as they age -- after just a year or two -- even when they have been sitting unopened in a box. It's possible that these bottles were full when the seller bought them and have never been opened yet are noticeably less full now.

[evanesce]

I am of the mind, that if I get a bottle, open it once, then toss it in a box, when I decide to sell it -- it's full. The end.

[Concupiscentia]

I'd say if it came from the lab a wee bit lower, that's fine to sell as full. Selling it as brand new when you bought from another member and the level is lower than average may be tricky though.

 

When doing decanting, I noticed that 99% of bottles have 5ml plus a wee bit, about a third to half of an imp. What's left is enough for several tests or a few wears.

[lilium]

I would also tell the buyer, that it is full to the label, even if I got it like that from the lab, because I (as the buyer) expected the bottles to be fuller.

Maybe it's really like meganola said, the oil level goes down with aging. I don't think the seller wanted to betray me, she probably just didn't check the bottles before shipping. But I'm happy with my purchase anyway

[Flightless]

One thing I noticed about this query that no one has touched on: These oils are four years old. I've had levels in quite a few bottles go down as they age -- after just a year or two -- even when they have been sitting unopened in a box. It's possible that these bottles were full when the seller bought them and have never been opened yet are noticeably less full now.

It requires a bit of forethought, but would electric/Pluming tape around the lid and neck of a new bottle help prevent this?

I have a couple LE bottles that are a few years old and living in a dry climate, I'd like to prevent this as much as possible.

[saralaughs]

I would also tell the buyer, that it is full to the label, even if I got it like that from the lab, because I (as the buyer) expected the bottles to be fuller.

Maybe it's really like meganola said, the oil level goes down with aging. I don't think the seller wanted to betray me, she probably just didn't check the bottles before shipping. But I'm happy with my purchase anyway

 

And I think you're the sweetest thing ever. If I was the seller, I wouldn't have any problem if you brought this complaint to me and I would do my best to aleave your disappointment.

 

It's a sucky situation but I think you've handled it with class, based on what I know.

[twilighteyes]

I bought some 2004-2005 bpal oils from a seller on another forum. She said they were "full". When I got them, they were all different levels. Blue Moon was both full to the shoulder. Lughnasadh was about 3/4th full. A few others were only 3/4th full. When I asked her about it, she got REALLY defensive, like personal attack defensive. She swore up and down that they came that way. *shrug*

 

I once received a bottle of Glowing Vulva directly from the Lab that was less than half full. They replaced it. Mistakes DO happen!

[meaganola]

One thing I noticed about this query that no one has touched on: These oils are four years old. I've had levels in quite a few bottles go down as they age -- after just a year or two -- even when they have been sitting unopened in a box. It's possible that these bottles were full when the seller bought them and have never been opened yet are noticeably less full now.

It requires a bit of forethought, but would electric/Pluming tape around the lid and neck of a new bottle help prevent this?

I have a couple LE bottles that are a few years old and living in a dry climate, I'd like to prevent this as much as possible.

 

I don't think it's an evaporation issue. I think it's just part of the chemical change that comes with aging. I notice it more with the scents that change a lot as they age, like Snake Oil and Vixen (and, wow, I need to get a bottle of this stuff to sock away for next summer, but that's a topic for a different thread). My theory is that the molecules themselves are shrinking, which makes the scent deeper and richer.

[violetblue]

I have noticed all bottles from Dark Delicacies are never quite as full as ones mailed from the lab - happened to me with all the laces as well as Black Heart...no biggie, but I did notice...

[samarablackcat]

I received two bottles of Tattered Lace from DD at the same time and the fill is different on both. One is full into the neck, and the other is to the top of the shoulder. My Red Lace came the same way...two bottles, bought at the same time, different fill levels.

 

Aren't these all filled by the lab? And filled by hand? None of them are going to be exact. All usually hold more than 5mls. I bought a bottle of oil sold as 5ml, and I thought it would be a full bottle. It had approximately two decants missing, thus 5mls, going on the assumption that a bottle hold 7 mls.

 

I also have bottles where the label sits very low, closer to the bottom of the bottle, so to say the level is TOL would be correct, but not accurate. In those cases the fill would be more likely be minus a decant. Or more.

 

And the only time I can honestly say that I've gotten a "full" bottle (way up into the neck) has been with Chaos Theories.

 

But when I read "top of the label" my mind interprets it as "minus one decant".

[marquis]

I received two bottles of Tattered Lace from DD at the same time and the fill is different on both. One is full into the neck, and the other is to the top of the shoulder. My Red Lace came the same way...two bottles, bought at the same time, different fill levels.

 

Aren't these all filled by the lab? And filled by hand? None of them are going to be exact. All usually hold more than 5mls. I bought a bottle of oil sold as 5ml, and I thought it would be a full bottle. It had approximately two decants missing, thus 5mls, going on the assumption that a bottle hold 7 mls.

 

I also have bottles where the label sits very low, closer to the bottom of the bottle, so to say the level is TOL would be correct, but not accurate. In those cases the fill would be more likely be minus a decant. Or more.

 

And the only time I can honestly say that I've gotten a "full" bottle (way up into the neck) has been with Chaos Theories.

 

But when I read "top of the label" my mind interprets it as "minus one decant".

 

Even if they are filled by hand, I doubt they are doing it by eye (not only would it be slow, it would be slightly insane) and would have calibrated pipettes to dispense the oil. 

 

 

Someone further up thread said they'd never had a bottle from the lab be at the TOL. I've had several over the years so it is possible for a bottle to have only been lightly tested once and still look like it has decants missing. 

 

 

[evanesce]

The bottles have not been filled by hand for years.

 

The reason people get defensive is that, they did nothing at all wrong. They got the bottle that full, didn't touch it, and now someone is basically saying something with an undercurrent of "You're screwing me over." It sucks.

 

Now, the labels I think are put on by hand, which means the height of the label is a completely useless way to measure how much oil is in the bottle.

 

In fact -- Unless you have the time and inclination to actually take the oil out of the bottle and measure it, mL by mL, there is no way to just guess how much is in the bottle by sight. Furthermore, if you have that kind of spare time... well kudos to you.

 

When you purchase handmade and artisan goods - whether it's food, clothing, jewelry, pottery or perfume, there is going to be variances and other issues. That's the whole point.

 

ETA, from Andra's post, again:

Each measure of oil that goes into the bottles and vials are calibrated. The imps are 1/32 of an ounce (IIRC). The glass in each bottle/vial can differ, which is you may get bottles that are full into the neck or only up to the shoulders. It is still the same amount of oil.

Edited June 18, 2011 by evanesce

[lilium]

It wasn't my intention to blame somebody, I'm really sorry, if my question was offensive. As I said, I like the scents and I'm not disappointed with my purchase.

[evanesce]

I get that - I was mostly responding to why people would get offended. I understand being... well.. annoyed at the bottle not being "full." It's just really hard with handmade goods to be perfectly precise.

[ivyandpeony]

Bumping this because a member was looking for it.

[cinnamonster]

My bottle of Anesthesia was the lowest fill I've ever had, way below the shoulder, and the base of the bottle was way thicker than normal meaning even less in it. If the bottles are filled by weight, extra glass in the bottle would mean you get less oil.

[Ina Garten Davita]

My bottle of Anesthesia was the lowest fill I've ever had, way below the shoulder, and the base of the bottle was way thicker than normal meaning even less in it. If the bottles are filled by weight, extra glass in the bottle would mean you get less oil.

They are not filled by weight, rather calibrated by volume. The weight of the bottle is irrelevant. The volume (5 milliliters or basically, one teaspoon) is the same regardless of the bottle.